> Security Wizard on a second PC, I find that it is secured on the second
PC,
> but completely unsecured when I open it on the first.
>
> Can anyone explain this behaviour?
>
> Both PCs are running Windows XP and both are runnign the same copy of MS
> Access 2002
>
> Authored by: Milewskp
>

"Rick Brandt" wrote:

> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B3DF35F7-A0F5-40A6-AEF7-69664D167E42@microsoft.com...
> > If I create an Access database on one PC, and then secure it by using the
> > Security Wizard on a second PC, I find that it is secured on the second PC,
> > but completely unsecured when I open it on the first.
> >
> > Can anyone explain this behaviour?
>
> That is the expected behavior when a file is secured incorrectly.  In some
> versions the wizard does NOT produce a properly secured file.  Chances are Admin
> is still the owner of the  database meaning that anyone will be able to open it.
>
> --
> Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
> Email (as appropriate) to...
> RBrandt   at   Hunter   dot   com
>
>
>

"Rick Brandt" wrote:

> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:2B330FE7-6738-47E6-BFDD-9B6D3E013F3D@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks Rick.
> > Can you explain what it is about the permissions set by the Wizard that
> > appears to make the database secure on one PC but not the other?
> >
> > Can you point me to a reference that lists bugs related to ULS Security in
> > general, and the Security Wizard in particular?
>
> You are assuming it is secure on the original PC because you are prompted to log
> in.  That is a completely separate issue from whether a file is secured or not.
>
> The truth is that the file is totally un-secured because the Admin user as a
> member of the Users group is able to open it on the other PC.  Neither Admin nor
> the group Users should have any permissions or ownership in a properly secured
> file.
>
> As stated before, a common mis-step is to leave Admin as the owner of the
> database.  Owners have rights above and beyond their *permissions*.
>
> --
> Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
> Email (as appropriate) to...
> RBrandt   at   Hunter   dot   com
>
>
>

"Joan Wild" wrote:

> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:E8426AD6-70B8-4A76-8F59-503EBCD5B9F3@microsoft.com...
> > Hi Rick,
> > I can open the database on the PC that it was created on just by double
> > clicking the file icon. When I try this on the PC that the database was
> > secured on, Access will not let me open the file.
>
> It sounds as though these are different files.  The permissions are stored in the mdb file.  Securing one copy of the file, doesn't magically secure all copies of it.
>
> You need to copy the secure mdb to the other computer as well.
>
> --
> Joan Wild
> Microsoft Access MVP
>
Hi Joan,

"Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:60748FDB-BDF9-477C-BA59-CE6095EDB9BB@microsoft.com...
>
>
> "Joan Wild" wrote:
>> Sorry, but I am not clear here.  How are you opening it on PC1?  It still sounds as though you are opening the original file that was on PC1.  Are you copying back the secure file to PC1?  Are you opening it over the network?
>
> Hi Joan,
> I create the file on PC1, and call it CreatedOnPC1.mdb
> I copy CreatedOnPC1.mdb to a memory stick
> I copy CreatedOnPC1.mdb from the memory stick to PC2’s desktop
> I secure the copy of CreatedOnPC1.mdb on PC2’s desktop using the Security
> Wizard as explained earlier.
> I rename the secured mdb file on PC2’s desktop as
> CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb, and copy it to the memory stick.
> I copy CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb from the memory stick to PC1’s desktop.
> I double click on CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb on PC1’s desktop, and it
> opens.
>
> Note: I am running  the same copy of Access 2002 under Windows XP on both
> PC1 and PC2. This problem doesn’t occur on other pairs on PCs that I’ve tried
> which are running Access 2003.
>
>

> Microsoft Access MVP
> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:60748FDB-BDF9-477C-BA59-CE6095EDB9BB@microsoft.com...
> >
> >
> > "Joan Wild" wrote:
> >> Sorry, but I am not clear here.  How are you opening it on PC1?  It still sounds as though you are opening the original file that was on PC1.  Are you copying back the secure file to PC1?  Are you opening it over the network?
> >
> > Hi Joan,
> > I create the file on PC1, and call it CreatedOnPC1.mdb
> > I copy CreatedOnPC1.mdb to a memory stick
> > I copy CreatedOnPC1.mdb from the memory stick to PC2’s desktop
> > I secure the copy of CreatedOnPC1.mdb on PC2’s desktop using the Security
> > Wizard as explained earlier.
> > I rename the secured mdb file on PC2’s desktop as
> > CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb, and copy it to the memory stick.
> > I copy CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb from the memory stick to PC1’s desktop.
> > I double click on CreatedOnPC1.SecuredOnPC2.mdb on PC1’s desktop, and it
> > opens.
> >
> > Note: I am running  the same copy of Access 2002 under Windows XP on both
> > PC1 and PC2. This problem doesn’t occur on other pairs on PCs that I’ve tried
> > which are running Access 2003.
> >
> >
>

"Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:CB3A7079-09C4-4F5F-8D1C-B2E9C69EF824@microsoft.com...
> Hi Joan,
>
> I've tried to duplicate this problem on other pairs of PCs, including:
> - my PC1,  and PC3 (running Access 2003)
> - my PC2, and PC3 (running Access 2003)
> - PC3 and PC4 (both running Access 2003).
> but I have only been able to get the problem to occur when I create the mdb
> on my PC1 and secure it on my PC2, or create the mdb on my PC2 and secure it
> on my PC1. Both PC1 and PC2 run the same copy of Access 2002.
>
> Notes:
> - If I both create and secure the mdb on PC1, I don't have the problem (ie
> it is secure on both PC1 and PC2).
> - If I both create and secure the mdb on PC2, I don't have the problem (ie
> it is secure on both PC1 and PC2).
>
> Any guesses as to what it could be about the configuration of MS Access on
> these PCs (eg., registry settings, system.mdw characteristics, etc.), that
> could be causing this problem? I'd like to find out what is causing this, but
> I'm not sure what to check next.

"Joan Wild" wrote:

> It could be that PC1 or PC2 is joined by default to a mdw that isn't a standard system.mdw (or is one that has been modified)?
>
> Since you are using 2002/2003, you can search for *.mdw and rename every one that you find.  When you open Access it'll create a new pristine system.mdw
>
> Creating on one, and securing on another shouldn't make a difference
>
> By the way, you can secure without using the wizard.
>
> --
> Joan Wild
> Microsoft Access MVP

"Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:053BB5EE-6F81-4D55-8718-207EC49462E6@microsoft.com...
> Hi Joan,
> < It could be that PC1 or PC2 is joined by default to a mdw that isn't a
> standard system.mdw (or is one that has been modified)?>
> Since the Wizard  creates a new mdb with a random SID for Admins, strips
> Admin and Users of all permissions, changes the owner from Admin to the
> curent user and assigns the new user a random SID, I don’t see how any
> modification to system.mdw would allow it to open the secured mdb. Can you?
>
> The only way I can explain what’s happenign is to assume that the Wizard in
> this version of Access doesn’t change the Admins SID stored in the mdb file
> if it is different than the Admins SID of the system.mdw of the current PC.
> Can you think of any other explanation? If I’m right, you would agree that
> this is a flaw in Access, or is there a valid reason for this behaviour?
>
>
>
> "Joan Wild" wrote:
>
>> It could be that PC1 or PC2 is joined by default to a mdw that isn't a standard system.mdw (or is one that has been modified)?
>>
>> Since you are using 2002/2003, you can search for *.mdw and rename every one that you find.  When you open Access it'll create a new pristine system.mdw
>>
>> Creating on one, and securing on another shouldn't make a difference
>>
>> By the way, you can secure without using the wizard.
>>
>> --
>> Joan Wild
>> Microsoft Access MVP

"Joan Wild" wrote:
> The wizard asks you if you want to modify the existing mdw or create a new one.  It could be modifying a mdw that, although named differently than the default, really is just a copy of the default.
>
> On the machine where the wizard appears to not secure it properly, login as a member of the Admins group using your 'secure' mdw and check that
> Admin user isn't the owner of anything.
> Users Group doesn't have permission to anything.
>
>

"Joan Wild" wrote:

> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:1E27AFC3-D3DA-4AAB-BD2C-568C6A208009@microsoft.com...
> >
> > I discovered that the system.mdw on PC1 that was causing the trouble was
> > created by Access 97, and the testing I’ve done suggests that when Access
> > 2002 secures an mdb file that was created in Access 1997, IT DOES NOT CHANGE
> > THE ADMINS SID STORED IN THE MDB FILE.
> >
> > To confirm my theory, would you please do the following for me:
> > - Create an mdb in Access 1997.
> > - Secure it in Access 2002 using the security wizard.
> > - Replace the Access 2002 system.mdw file with the Access 1997 system.mdw.
> > - Try to open the secured mdb by double-clicking it.
>
> Sorry but I can't reproduce this.  Created a mdb in 97.  Secured it using the wizard in 2002.  Wasn't able to open the secured mdb via double-click.  Replaced the 2002 system.mdw with the 97 system.mdw (not sure why you'd do this, but...); still wasn't able to open the secure mdb via a double-click.
>
> Something else is causing this.
>
> --
> Joan Wild
> Microsoft Access MVP
>

"Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:FA52D2BB-8604-4D3A-A185-DB2E08F2443C@microsoft.com...
> Hi Joan,
> Thanks for trying. I'll try it on a couple of PCs at work and keep you
> posted if you're interested.
>
> "Joan Wild" wrote:
>
>> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:1E27AFC3-D3DA-4AAB-BD2C-568C6A208009@microsoft.com...
>> >
>> > I discovered that the system.mdw on PC1 that was causing the trouble was
>> > created by Access 97, and the testing I’ve done suggests that when Access
>> > 2002 secures an mdb file that was created in Access 1997, IT DOES NOT CHANGE
>> > THE ADMINS SID STORED IN THE MDB FILE.
>> >
>> > To confirm my theory, would you please do the following for me:
>> > - Create an mdb in Access 1997.
>> > - Secure it in Access 2002 using the security wizard.
>> > - Replace the Access 2002 system.mdw file with the Access 1997 system.mdw.
>> > - Try to open the secured mdb by double-clicking it.
>>
>> Sorry but I can't reproduce this.  Created a mdb in 97.  Secured it using the wizard in 2002.  Wasn't able to open the secured mdb via double-click.  Replaced the 2002 system.mdw with the 97 system.mdw (not sure why you'd do this, but...); still wasn't able to open the secure mdb via a double-click.
>>
>> Something else is causing this.
>>
>> --
>> Joan Wild
>> Microsoft Access MVP
>>

"Joan Wild" wrote:

> If you like, you can compact and zip up the 'secure' mdb that isn't working, and I'll have a look.
>
> jwild at tyenet dot com
>

"Chris Mills" <phad_nospam@cleardotnet.nz> wrote in message news:u9VKHPclHHA.4840@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Just a minor comment or two:
>
> The SecFAQ DOES say that mdw's should not be converted (even though there is
> such an option in Access).
>
> Most times, it hardly matters and mdw conversions or mixings usually work
> fine, but NOT ALWAYS.
>
> The only one I know of for sure is this:
> IF you convert a 97 mdw to later mdw it apparently works fine.
> BUT, IF the 97 mdw was previously converted from an A2.0 mda, it will fall
> over quick-smart on converting to a later version.
> THEREFORE, a "97 mdw" is not enough info, because apparently it has
> differences depending on how it was generated!
>
> I don't think that particular bug was known when they wrote the SecFAQ,
> therefore, the authors must have had suspicions about converting or mixing
> mdw's independently!
> -----
> Of course, MS response is just so much PR BS, like so:
> "We do try to resolve these problems to the best of our ability."
> B.S. The above bug has been known for a long time. Not to mention, that the
> SecFAQ (some of the most experienced people we have) recommend against
> converting mdw's whereas MS still provides it as a standard option! SecFAQ has
> contained that recommendation for some 10yrs or so!
>
> "I will submit this issue as a bug to our Offbug site."
> Why bother? A97 is many versions obsolete from MS point of view, but a long
> way from that status in user's point of view.
>
> "Issues will be dealt with depending on product cycle needs and relevance to
> current product version.  "
> Exactly. ULS is obsolete!
>
> It is also clear that, and perhaps understandably, MS tends not to bring out
> "hot fixes" but has a standard program of 2 or 3 "standard" SP's in the
> life-cycle. Therefore, fixes can't be expected soon even for the most horrid
> of bugs!
>
> If they acknowledge it as a bug, your realistic option remains to find a
> workaround to avoid it (just as if it was your own bug!!!). I believe I have
> been well-warned, by the SecFAQ, that mixing versions of mdw's is fraught with
> potential you-know-whats. I do exactly that of course, mix versions, until I
> strike some barrier.
>
> In this case, recreate a brand-new mdw, as I had to do in shifting from A97 to
> A2000.
>
> If MS wanted to "come clean", they should acknowledge the SecFAQ advice and,
> therefore, take "convert mdw" out of the Access menu! (simpler than fixing it
> heh-heh)
>
> Chris
>
>

"Joan Wild" wrote:

> Yes I did get it, and I responded by email.  As I said, you had me follow a pretty obscure set of steps.  I can't think that one would follow this in any real-world situation.  I mean you create a mdb in 2002 while joined to the 97 system.mdw.  Then you switch out the 97 system.mdw and replace it with the 2002 system.mdw.  Then you proceed to secure it.  Then you switch the system.mdw files back again.  The secure mdb can be opened by the (what is now the default) 97 system.mdw file in 2002.
>
> I guess in the strictest sense it is a bug; probably related to the fact that the system.mdw are different versions.(?)  But you have to admit those are a pretty strange set of steps one would have to follow to create this situation. 
>
> The system.mdw for 97 is installed in the windows system folder; while the system.mdw for 2002 is installed in a different location.  When one creates a 2002 mdb, it isn't likely they'd be using the 97 mdw.  And even if they were, it is further unlikely that they'd then switch to the 2002 system.mdw and then secure it.
>
> If I create a mdb in 2002 using the 2002 system.mdw and then secure it, I can't open it using the 97 system.mdw (nor the 2002 system.mdw).  If I create a mdb in 2002 using the 97 system.mdw (and don't switch it back), I can't open it using either 2002 or 97 system.mdw.
>
> Under what circumstances would you see someone switching the system.mdw so much?
>
> For those interested in seeing it:
> Using 2002, join the '97 version of system.mdw
> Close and reopen 2002 and create a new mdb Test.mdb - close the database
> Rejoin the 2002 version of system.mdw
> Close Access and reopen Test.mdb (now you're joined to 2002 version of system.mdw)
> Run the security wizard - just hit Next 7 times and then Finish
> Rejoin the 97 version of system.mdw as the default.
> Close Access; You'll now find that you can open the secure Test.mdb with the default set to 97 system.mdw
>
>
>
> --
> Joan Wild
> Microsoft Access MVP
>

"Rick Brandt" wrote:

> Milewskp wrote:
> > Hi Rick,
> > I can open the database on the PC that it was created on just by
> > double clicking the file icon. When I try this on the PC that the
> > database was secured on, Access will not let me open the file. (To
> > secure the database I followed steps 16-32 on Joan Wild's Step by
> > Step instructions at http://www.jmwild.com/security02.htm.)
>
> Without reviewing them, can you explain why you did not follow steps 1
> through 15?  Access security has no "frill steps". If you leave something
> out it does not work.
>
> > Can you explain what it is about the permissions set by the Wizard
> > that appears to make the database secure on one PC but not the other?
> >
> > Can you point me to a reference that lists bugs related to ULS
> > Security in general, and the Security Wizard in particular?
>
> There are no "bugs" that I know of (except in the wizards).  ULS is just
> HARD until you fully understand how it works.
>
> --
> Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
> Email (as appropriate) to...
> RBrandt   at   Hunter   dot   com
>
>
>

"Rick Brandt" <rickbran***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LDSZh.6934$rO7.6841@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B3DF35F7-A0F5-40A6-AEF7-69664D167E42@microsoft.com...
> > If I create an Access database on one PC, and then secure it by using
the
> > Security Wizard on a second PC, I find that it is secured on the second
PC,
> > but completely unsecured when I open it on the first.
> >
> > Can anyone explain this behaviour?
>
> That is the expected behavior when a file is secured incorrectly.  In some
> versions the wizard does NOT produce a properly secured file.  Chances are
Admin
> is still the owner of the  database meaning that anyone will be able to
open it.
>
> --
> Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
> Email (as appropriate) to...
> RBrandt   at   Hunter   dot   com
>
>

"Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B3DF35F7-A0F5-40A6-AEF7-69664D167E42@microsoft.com...
> If I create an Access database on one PC, and then secure it by using the
> Security Wizard on a second PC, I find that it is secured on the second
PC,
> but completely unsecured when I open it on the first.
>
> Can anyone explain this behaviour?
>
> Both PCs are running Windows XP and both are runnign the same copy of MS
> Access 2002
>
> Authored by: Milewskp
>

"Aaron Kempf" <ake***@dol.wa.gov> wrote in message
news:eKCMtUOjHHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> ULS is obsolete
>
> move to Access Data Projects
>
>
> "Milewskp" <Milew***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B3DF35F7-A0F5-40A6-AEF7-69664D167E42@microsoft.com...
>> If I create an Access database on one PC, and then secure it by using the
>> Security Wizard on a second PC, I find that it is secured on the second
> PC,
>> but completely unsecured when I open it on the first.
>>
>> Can anyone explain this behaviour?
>>
>> Both PCs are running Windows XP and both are runnign the same copy of MS
>> Access 2002
>>
>> Authored by: Milewskp
>>
>
>